When I signed into AOL Instant Messenger today, my browser was hijacked by the usual "Start Your Day With Meaningless Drivel Brought to You By AOL" page, and what did I see but a headline about Pat Robertson talking about how we need to kill Hugo Chavez. Wow. Wow. Double wow. So this guy is a Christian leader? A follower of Christ? The same Christ who said, "My kingdom is not of this world"? I keep going back to my Bible looking for the part where the disciples were called on to assassinate Caiphas or Pontius Pilate or Herod, but I can't find it. Pat, can you help?
The Christian right continues to amaze me with their vile potion of ethnocentrism, fear, and reactionary hatred. As a Christian, I just want to clarify for anyone who may be wondering: this sort of fear/war-mongering is about as far from the teachings of Christ as you could get. I suppose I shouldn't be so surprised. I was talking to my brother-in-law (who is a pastor in Minnesota) about this, and as soon as I mentioned the name Robertson, he replied, "How did he embarass Jesus this time?"
August 26th, 2005 at 03:29 PM I couldn't agree more Doug. I was also shocked out of my chair when I first heard this. Get this, apparently the 700 Club folks have also come out and said they stand behind Pat. It's truly unbelievable. The saddest part of it all is that many people I know think Pat Robertson is your basic representation of Christianity (admitedly these are relatively uninformed people, but all the same). It seems some Christians, such as Robertson, reach new nose-bleed heights of lunacy everyday. Any Christian purpoting even basic support of war (any war) should, at a minimum, be holding and proclaiming strict Just War Theory constraints and justification. But now, we are so far gone, that many Christians simply demand war on straight-up Utilitarianism grounds without batting an eye -- completley neglecting (forgeting? never even knowing??) any mention of the virtue ethics proposed by Christ in direct opposition to the ways of this world. Now, forget war, Roberston wants to go ahead and call for direct assasinations! Unreal! And, of course, how did he justify it? With a nice spreadsheet style cost/benefit analysis of the situation. It was like he was discussing the benefits of an Roth IRA over a Traditional IRA -- such silly things like "ethics" or, God forbid, "the Sermon on the Mount" were never even in the equation! It's nuts. After hearing things like this nonesense from the likes of Pat, all I can do is pray that Christ would come back soon. Come, Lord, come.
August 27th, 2005 at 02:27 AM Well, except that if Christ does manage to come back anytime soon it will mean the end of the world, not something I'm looking forward to for several reasons. :-)
The story gets even richer: Robertson has gone on air and appologized. He says that instead of killing Chavez we should just kidnap him or let our special forces just "take him out." Much more humane, no? :-)
Sadly, Robertson does represent a large minority of Christians in the U.S. I was lucky to be raised in a family with Uncles and Grandfathers who are (were) part of a very different religion and church than Robertson represents. But with the amount of media attention and seeming support that Robertson and his friends at the Family Research Council and the Christian Coalition get, I never would have even known about the "sane" side of Christianity. --Cyrus
August 28th, 2005 at 12:42 PM As a disciple of Christ, his return (and the end of the world) would be very good news, indeed. The end of the world, since we as Christians have priveldged information as to what the "end game" is (i.e. God wins, good conquers evil, no more tears, spears bent into plowshears, etc, etc), should be something you ARE looking forward to for several reasons. Let's not forget that we believe (as Christians) the end of the world is a good thing.
September 6th, 2005 at 03:51 AM Jesus also said it is not for us to know the times or dates of His return. So I think bringing the end of the world genre from the scriptures doesn't really fit into our discussion. We know some of what is going to happen but not all of it. Groups over the centuries have tried to predict when Jesus will come (88 reasons for 1988, etc) but that is not our job. That is in the hands of God. I guess right now I see the church as becoming so far removed from the world that they don't love on people at all. They love people if it is on their terms. Build a big building, have amazing programs, top notch worship, horizontal worship service. These things should be for God, vertical in it's message, etc. I'm not picking on homeschoolers here, but a majority of our familes at our church home school their kids. That in of itself is silently teaching that they need to seperate from the culture and world around them. Most Christians won't even associate with their unsaved neighbor, they have condemed them, written them off as unsavable. As a result in some ways we are just like Pat (we acknowlege that we wouldn't send people out to murder a nation's president) but we have written off people by not engaging with them. We have become the other part of Jesus statement, the church, have become too consumed with ourselves to love our neighbor. Remember Jesus came to seek and save the lost not condem them. We need to take a good hard look at 'seek.' Are we like the religious leaders that Jesus came to rip apart? Are we really 'getting' his message?
September 9th, 2005 at 09:22 AM Be careful my brothers. I too was shocked that Pat Robinson would make such a public statement. It was wrong, but how many of you could pick up the first stone and cast it. Gods word says to pray for our leaders. Even if they are bad.I have brothers and sisters who say dumb things to me everyday, things that make me want to say whoa shooter. But, I know thier hearts and I know that as humans we are not completely sanctified. We do and say dumb things. Some of us are just lucky that we don't say them in the presence of millions. But does it really matter? God knows every stupid word we utter. I am so thankful that He also loves me through my stupidity as I am sure that He will love Pat Robinson through his.Lets not fall into the trap of the world and start beating up on fellow believers because we want to show the world that we can relate to them in that way. As we cast our eyes to the end times don't ever forget that you will be tested if the Lord chooses to allow us to go through that time. Remember in the end times brother will be against brother,children will turn in thier parents because of thier belief in Jesus, I can't help believe that there will be some who because they were afraid of the coming persecution would turn in thier own children. Yes Pat was wrong, very wrong but Pat Robinson I think?, (and thank God) is redeemable...remember Peter? The world is not your friend if you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, if it was Jesus would not have died on the cross.We speak privately to a brother if he falls so that he can know the love of Christ and be restored. The world clamors for more of our public bashing of one another,but the world also clamors for the love of Christ. How confused they must be when we say love your brother unless he says something dumb.
September 10th, 2005 at 10:05 AM Dad, I think that you are confusing the love of Christ. Love does not mean standing on the sidelines while someone who claims to be a representative of Christ seems to embarrass God and His priciples. I firmly belive that Pat Robertson is not speaking of God's love here in any sense. Just as Pat publicly made his absolutely stupid statement, we should publicly disagree. I wanted to argue a couple key things that struck me in your post.
You said the we should be praying for our leaders. Do you consider Pat one of your leaders? I do not. I can pray for him, but I am not going to move him into the position of being my leader.
You said that you have "brothers and sisters" who are constantly saying dumb things to you, but you forgive them of those things because "you know their hearts." First of all, I disagree that you can actually know a man's heart. Straight from Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is hopelessly dark and deceitful, a puzzle that no one can figure out." You have conflicting points. First you say to only pray for leaders -- don't confront -- but then you are supposed to confront your brothers? We may not be perfect, but we are representatives of Christ and his teachings. Isn't it our responsibility then to defend these teachings and speak up for what we know of Him who saved us? This is one of the most misunderstood points in contemporary Christian circles, I think. I have rarely seen a brotherly confrontation done in a way that seems to be what God had in mind. With that said, I know for sure that, in this case, Robertson is misrepresenting God to others, and that is where I take issue with you saying you should really just be silent and pray (and not confront).
I believe that it does matter if we say stupid things in the presence of a small group or to millions. I am positive Pat Robertson could give me a pretty good estimate for how many people watch his show any given day. Why then is he being so flippant with his words? There's a big difference in me asking for the assassination of a world leader among a group of friends and Pat Robertson doing it on the 700 Club. I believe Pat has put himself in a position to be publicly challenged. Sure, God is loving Pat through his stupidity, but I am also positive that God's not just ignoring how Pat made a fool of Him on national television. I really disagree that it's the "world's trap" if we challenge Robertson (or really any "Christian celebrity" for that matter).
Your closing sentence is where I really see a confusion in terms of love. It is okay to say, "you are saying something dumb" to another person, Christian or not. It does not mean I have to withdraw my love for that person to do so. I can honestly say that I don't truly feel buckets of loves for Pat Robertson, not because I dislike him, but more because I don't know him personally. But with interactions between people that I do know and love, I can say, "I think you're being an idiot, but that doesn't mean I don't love you.
September 20th, 2005 at 10:10 AM Doug, i am a friend of Kyle and Jeanette and found your page via a link in the neken page. i have heard a bunch about you and your family. i really appreciate your view on the christian right embarassing the gospel. i often feel this way and it is good to hear others who agree. i look foward to reading your blog more often. isn't it interesting how these connections work. i saw the link on the neken site, recognized your daughters name and found a person who shares the same sadness and righteous anger when th gospel is misused and embarassed.
September 27th, 2005 at 08:08 AM Thanks for the post Chad.
September 30th, 2005 at 02:31 PM Well this subject has brought up a great debate.Lets look at Ol Patty for a minute. I bet Pat is really doing some soul searching at the moment. I think back to Jim and Tammy Faye. Their ministries have all but fell apart and I suspect the same will happen to Pat. Vengence is mine says the Lord.I have been reading in Judges lately and I have been studing Samson. Strong man that Samson. But a reprobate. Liked prostitutes. Hung around with women who worshiped idols, in fact married one. But the cool thing about the whole story is the fact that God still used Samson.Guess what? Samson was publicly shamed.Got his hair cut,got his eyes poked out and committed suicide just to avenge the Lord.I think just like Samson Ol Patty is going to do some soul searching too. See in the midst of his prison sentance Samsons hair grew out and he got strong again and whooped da Kaing. Cause you see its all about Grace. Its all about what Jesus did on the cross. Its all about redemption. I was once very,very lost. I mean I was sucked into the world big time. Drugs , smoke dope ,acid, hash, opium...need I go on. I really wanted something. I wanted to fill that whole in my heart. So I filled it with garbage partly because I was self medicating from the pain that following the world was giving me, and here is the really scary part, I thought doing this was enlighting my inner self. I was really getting the answers to life. I was an idiot. But in my deepest darkest moments when satan was telling me to just give myself over to him, worship him, accept him as my king my heart was crying out saying no. I heard a small voice over the shouting lies of my greatest enemy...satan. See I was just like Samson. Blind, weak,of no use. Until I heard that voice,the voice of Christ saying don't you fear! I am your strength. I will fight your enemies, I will give you the strength. Trust me, I am your only hope but you MUST trust me. My heart was dark ...Jeremiah 17:9...but God knew it ....Jesus knew it and He saved me from the mouth of the lion. Now why would God do that? Because He loves me and finds me worthy enough to save. I am worthy not because of what I am but because of who God is.Why did Jesus go to the cross? It was to save idiots like me and idiots like Pat Robinson,and Ted Bundy.When I was not of Christ, I hated Christians,the hypocrates! Always better than me they thought! They were stupid and idiotic,smoking the opium of the religious leaders of their day. Now Pat is not my leader, Jesus Christ is, but he is a leader to someone.Lets face it we are all following some leader...right? Men are men subject to fall. We are like Isreal always crying out for a leader when God was saying " why do you need any leader but me?" So here it is in a nutshell. I am saved not by my works(giving to the poor,repeating many prayers,trying not to steal my brothers holloween candy) These are all good things, but they will not save you. Jesus says your good works are but filthy rags. Do you know what rags Jesus is talking about? He is talking about the menstral rags of a women. Pretty graphic aye.So what will save us? Only the the death of Jesus on the cross. He was the sacrafice. The perfact sacrafice. The perfact work, the Good Work. It was also the perfact gift. All I had to do that nite was accept Him and His sacrafice, His death in place of me. He died to save me? The heart that Jeremiah was talking about in 17:9. Why would he forgive me like that? How could I ever not forgive those who God says are forgivable? Well, now I have become what I so detested, a child of Christ, an idiot in the eyes of the world.I know those who are of Christ, sometimes I am fooled, but that is not my job to seperate the weeds from the grain, thats Gods job.Samsons own people came to him, I hope in love if not with great respect because of Samsons power. They tried to turn him but in the end it was God who had to do that work. His enemies taunted him and hated him but in the end God gave Samson the power to bring their temple down around their heads.So do we really have to do Gods work? I fear God too much to get in His way. He will deal with Pat if he is truly a believer in Christ just like He delt with Samson. The old testament is filled with examples like this, Jonah,Moses, Saul."Nothing new under the sun" as my brother Tim Lemmens says. Amen